04 Feb 2010

I’m Taking the Gloves Off

Comments
Business, Making Money, Motivation

boxing glovesI was reading a post on Jonathan Fields’ blog a few days ago about fairness, and although there were two sides to his story, I’m only going to focus on the one I think is most important, which is the rich vs poor debate.

If you haven’t read the post, then you can find it here. But beware, you’ll find some heated debates.

I Know What It’s Like to Be Poor

So here’s the deal…I’m not rich yet, but I plan to be. In my mind, it’s just a matter of time. However, even though I’m doing OK now, there was a time when I was poor. In fact, I was poor for several years, and it was all my fault.

Now, I could be like a lot of other people and find someone else to blame. I could’ve blamed my family, friends, or loved ones for not helping me often enough.

I could’ve blamed the government for catering to the rich and keeping the poor from moving up.

I could’ve blamed God, or life…but I didn’t. Why? Because I knew it was all my damn fault, and barring mental illness or physical disability, I had the same chance as anyone else did to move from being poor to being wealthy.

Action Beats Blame…Every Time

Instead, I went and got a few college grants and loans so I could get a degree. Upon completion (it took 5 years because I had a job and a family), I couldn’t find any job that wouldn’t keep me broke.

So, I followed my grandfather’s lead, and I joined the Army because it was the best thing I could do for myself and for my family.

And that reminds me…to anyone that says you can’t find a way out of your situation…the Army is always hiring. Spending 8 months in Afghanistan isn’t ideal, and it certainly is a difficult experience, but I’m a better man for it and my family is in a better place because of it. I did what I had to do.

But I didn’t stop there…I built a business from Afghanistan so that I could take the next step and not have to rely on a paycheck, but rely on my own skill and instinct. And that’s where I am today.

I don’t tell you this because I’m special; I tell you this because, quite frankly, I’m tired of hearing people make excuses for being poor and being unwilling to do anything about it.

I’m tired of people thinking that it’s wrong to be rich, or that the rich “just got lucky.”

That’s a damn lie.

You Don’t Deserve Something for Nothing

If you want something, you have to earn it. There’s a mentality of freeloading in this society, and it’s getting worse. People want government bail outs even though they aren’t willing to bail themselves out. People want to punish the rich because “it’s not fair” that there are rich people when so many people are poor.

It’s moving into the online space as well.

I’ve been reading a lot of blogs and blog comments lately, and I’m amazed by the amount of people that feel they should be given information for free…that if a blogger should chose to charge for content, then they’ll go somewhere else to get free content.

Being Loyal to Free

What that tells me is that many people aren’t loyal to a blogger or a particular entrepreneur, and that they’re more loyal to free than they are to people. That troubles me.

What troubles me more though, is people that cater to this. Instead of standing strong, I see a lot of bloggers giving in and discounting their own efforts. They keep churning out free content, essentially working for free, in order to avoid rocking the boat.

That’s Ludicrous

Information is worth what you pay for it, and the more I give away the more I become convinced that people get addicted to consuming…not to absorb and use the content, but to chew it up and spit it back out…saving room for the next piece of free.

As a result, instead of helping people, we work to keep the cycle alive…and it keeps getting worse.

Who Are You Learning From?

These days, anyone with an opinion can start a blog and pretend that they’re going to lead you to better waters. Have you ever noticed the same information being regurgitated on blogs every single day?

It’s a sign that people don’t really know what they’re talking about. They’re just re-using the same stuff they read somewhere else and hiding behind a ruse in order to sell you something. They are cult leaders…not thought leaders. They simply tell you what you want to hear.

You May Not Be My Customer

I realize that I might be ruffling a few feathers here, and that’s good, because truthfully, some of you might not be a good fit for this blog, whether as a reader or as a customer. If you’re one of those, maybe it’s time we parted ways now, so that we don’t waste each other’s time.

I don’t want to waste time talking to people that find excuses instead of action steps. The people I want to talk to are those of you that have goals, believe you can accomplish them, and are willing to take action to do so.

Which Is Why…

I’ve started a new member’s area…to reward the people that understand that information isn’t free to obtain or to produce.

In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve been releasing a few protected posts as of late. These are newsletters to my subscribers, and they’re in there along with a few other nifty things.

That area is going to continue to grow, and it’s going to see a lot more of my time.

I’m going to be using that area to launch many of my upcoming guides and courses as a way to make the good stuff more exclusive.

And no…this post isn’t one giant sales post designed to get you to join the member’s area. In fact, I’m not even going to tell you how to get there. There are clues throughout this site, but really, this post is less about a member’s area than it is about finding the right people to work with.

I also had a few things to get off my chest, and if you’re still reading this far, there’s a good chance that you might agree with me.

Either way, I’d like to hear your thoughts below.

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  • toddweiss
    Nate: Great blog. One of my favorite songs is Rush' "Something for Nothing". Nothing more annoying than folks assigning blame, making excuses or feeling entitled to something for free. Glad to see you "taking the gloves off". Shows courage and initiative and gets people thinking. Very though provoking. Keep ar it. TW
  • Not only the post fascinates me, but the comments are just as valuable. :-) I would like to add my small opinion too:

    It's hard to reach unanimous opinion on this for there are too many factors involved. Money will always be a sensitive issue, I agree with Oleg that most (although not all) will treat what they paid for seriously - to give something in exchange for an unknown result yet, a trust has been given, a wager has been put down, subsequently higher expectations will take place. Thing is, everyone has a different measurement of how 'valuable' an information/a community can be.

    I have experienced both free/paid resources and to me, what matters most is to know the value of the information given to us, how to use them afterward for productivity. Many have neglected that both free/paid resources can BOTH be beneficial and some cannot be measured by price alone. As long it's from someone you trusted (yes, again, we're back to the 'trust' element ^^ ) for the knowledge, personality and skills, it's all a matter of decision-making in accordance to your present objectives.

    Always remember ~ "Be a smart consumer. Be a responsible info-provider"



    @wchingya
    Social/Blogging Tracker
  • You always leave such insightful comments!

    You're right...a lot of people value products based not on the content, but on how much of it they were willing to use. No product, whether free or purchased, is worth a cent unless you action on the information inside of it.
  • travisamorgan
    Nathan,

    I've never been to your site before but I stumbled upon it through The InfoPreneur's site. I love your content!!

    I especially love what you said: People want to punish the rich because “it’s not fair” that there are rich people when so many people are poor.

    It's so true. What we forget is that the very people we're cursing at for being rich are the people providing jobs for others and stimulating the economy. If the rich weren't rich, we'd be SO much more worse off than we are now.

    Granted, we're pretty bad off. But thanks to the rich, we're not as bad as we could be.

    As for me, I'm a po-folk. But I'm working on changing that. By the grace of God and some inspiration, I know I'll pull out of this and hopefully even help my family get out of a poverty mindset.

    Thanks bro.
  • Travis,

    Glad you stopped by...feel free to hang out :)

    I like your perspective, and like many, I used to hate the rich and wish they'd share...and then I woke up. Being miserable isn't any damn fun, so instead of complaining and being bitter, I decided to take action.

    Then things changed...funny how that works.
  • ralphcarlson
    New to you and your site (referred by James). This post is like landing in a tropical storm. It is a little hard to stay on your feet. Obviously you have a lot to say and a track record to back it up. With respect to the military. I agree. I never planned to be in the military but I was drafted out of graduate school by a draft board that I pegged as petty. I went kicking and screaming into the Viet Nam war. It was what I needed and changed my life and my outlook dramatically. Nowadays, people like me never get that wakeup call - unless they ask for it. I was lucky.
  • Well, Vietnam was a hell of a war, I'm always honored to talk with vets like you. My grandfather was in WWII...and hearing stories was incredible...much different wars back then.

    Thanks for coming by too, feel free to come back!
  • neildahlstrand
    Nathan, Read everything top to bottom and have lots of thoughts. I agree with the sentiment in your post. I appreciate the tone of the discussion in the comments. Honest disagreement is far better than delusional consensus any day. Regarding excuses,there are none, only reasons. Folks use excuses all the time to deal with fear of being responsible for themselves. My field (residential renovation) is being decimated by a flood of newly unemployed construction workers who undercut prices across the board. It's a supply and demand market cycle so common to the world. The point, I suppose, is how to be a stand out with something unusually more valuable. It's a refinement process that never ends. I read you and many others and learn from you all. Thanks.
  • I am no pro blogger or author of content that would be paid to read, at least not yet. Like everyone else I do like free but aside from what I like, if you are good at something why do it for free? At the same time I think juicy free content should still be published, if the free material is moving for me I would start to wonder what would I get if I paid? Just my thoughts bud.
  • Ryan,

    You're right. I'm not opposed to free at all...there's no way to prove your salt unless you give something away. However, I think bloggers should be cautious and pay attention to the type of reader they are attracting.

    I'm just saying that bloggers should spend more time with their customers than they do trying to attract free consumers. Not that reading for free is a bad thing, but the day my blog becomes someones way to kill time, then I know I'm in trouble.
  • Good point, I can agree with that.
  • I just hope that the blogosphere isn't poised to spin off several hundred David Risley's or Darren Rouse'. (I respect them both tremendously, so I am not saying anything derogatory about them, it just seems like everyone is mimicking there sites with memberships, mailing lists, paid forums, courses, etc... I would like to see someone come up with something completely new and exciting. That might be worth paying for!).

    I went and commented on Fields article (comments are closing today BTW) and I personally think that if you have something people need/want and can charge for it great! If you are just trying to do what someone else has already done to create income, then you are riding someone else' coat tails and I don't have any respect for that.

    I once posed a question to David on his blog about knowing when to charge and what is good enough to charge. He replied that you should be prepared to giveaway much more than you get paid for. So that makes it obvious that "free" is good, and leads to "paid" if marketed correctly.

    Also, I am all about creating mailing lists, but I detest the "pop-up" asking me to opt in. If your content is good enough, people will sign up. There are also other ways to market the "opt-in" that are less intrusive to your readers. Let me know when that is removed and I would love to come back...
  • Keith, while I do agree that it tends to get redundant & a bit annoying seeing people copy the "gurus" with blogging/marketing advice... the market for these types of services is getting bigger & bigger by the day. More people are jumping on board the blogging "sensation" and getting involved with their passions & trying to make money with it online. Because of this, it's inevitable (and prudent) that others pop-up with blogging expertise to offer it to this influx. It's simple supply & demand.

    Now, the downside to this is that if the meta-blogging community becomes so saturated with "supply", then it just devalues services/products for *everyone* in the niche. Considering that many of these new & old consultants provide quality content, the most obvious differentiation will be price. Although it's not a lasting model (eventually you'll *have* to separate yourself by value & charge accordingly) - there will always be someone willing to lowball you & after a period of time, many of the "wannabe" gurus will end up out of business.
  • What I would like to see is more "specialized" blogging/marketing advice, instead of "Make 6 Figures Blogging" which already is becoming saturated. For example, someone with a background in SEO could put out training via classes, e-books, and video on SEO techniques, or someone with copywriting expertise, and even more specialized could be specific niche blogging help.

    This may be a far reach because it eliminates potential customers and isn't as broad of a topic, but I have plans for something like this on my site during this year (which is why I started my blog) and I hope to be more "specific" in the target market that could use my products. rather than just blanket the entire blogging community....

    And stop stalking me Jordan! ;-)
  • Is the "make six figures blogging" market really becoming saturated though? If it was, these eBooks, courses, mastermind groups, membership sites, etc. would go by the wayside really quickly... but they're NOT. That means there are still plenty of people willing to pay for this type of stuff. (even it's the unrealistic magic bullet dreamers)

    That's the point I was trying to make. Yes, it may seem to *us* that the market is saturated, but there are more fish in our sea now & many more jumping in to the waters - which means there's still plenty of demand for these types of products & services. When there isn't, that's when you'll see the market truly become saturated.
  • You're exactly right. The problem is, and it's something we've discussed, is that instead of going for these new eyeballs, many bloggers are trying to sell to other bloggers. It takes a bit of extra work to get the new eyeballs, but they're the ones buying.
  • Great post Nathan, it's similar to what happened already in the "make money online selling stuff to the make money online niche" niche. Blogging provided another umbrella under which that seems to be happening again (happened?).

    The "new eyeballs" as you say are the REAL market in [insert niche here].
  • Yep, now we've just got to figure out how to get to them...that's the fun part :)
  • Good point about *us* Jordan, maybe I see more of it because of the niche I am writing in and following.
  • That's something I'm concerned with too Keith. Those guys are great, but instead of copying them people should be trying to do something new. The same tactics that worked 10 years ago won't work today, and many of the tactics that work today won't work in the next 10 years. We need to keep testing new things.

    David is right by saying free comes first, but at some point it's time to decide if you're going to start charging or working for free. Blogging works great for a number of things, but I wish that people would use it to sell something useful instead of trying to join the make money blogging niche.
  • Yes indeed, I make my money from blogging because I have a manufactured products site where I sell real products, I blog to enhance content and for SEO, makes me a full time living. Using blogging for actual business is a powerful tool.

    Didn't get the pop-up this time... only first time visitors? :-)
  • Keith,

    It's cookied so it only shows up once when someone is on their way out. Not supposed to be intrusive, but some people don't see the form in the sidebar.

    Thanks for coming back :)
  • I also think it's unreasonable for those lacking a sufficient income being jealous of those who have more. They have more because they worked and sacrificed to get where they are now and they deserve to be there.

    I know of several cases where poor people won over a million dollars, and guess what, in just over a year they lost it all, and of course they blamed everyone else except for themselves.

    If you can have a section that you want to dedicate to members and they're willing to pay to be a part of it, then good luck to you Nathan, there's nothing wrong with charging for sharing your knowledge.
  • Jealousy is a huge problem, and I sense that's one of the biggest reasons that there is such an outcry of angst towards wealthy people.
  • I think it's probably been the case throughout time. Some use it as an excuse to remain poor while others see it as a goal to aim for.
  • Nathan, this is a very interesting discussion point that you bring up. In my business building websites, we've noticed a growing trend of customer who expect us to freely provide advice and coaching on how to market their website. They really do think we owe it to them to spend hours and hours teaching them for free just because they paid us to build their site. And I've been irked by the situation and actually created classes to teach and refer them to the classes, which we give discounts to our customers. Some takes us up on it, and some ask for free tuition. Interesting.

    I've also noticed online that there is a huge expectation that bloggers give it all away. Some do freely, but I can definitely see others who need income, and why shouldn't they get compensation for all their hard work? Last night I was at a meditation circle where people in the spiritual domain were talking about how they feel guilty taking money for providing spiritual services. But if they have to have a full time job to support their income, there wouldn't be much energy left for them to provide the spiritual services. So why shouldn't they be paid so they could focus on doing God's work?

    I for one totally support you and your decisions. I think it's great that you stand for what you want. I have read your Beyond Blogging book, and I think you've got fabulous ideas! I for one am interested in seeing what you come up with next - whether you charge or not.
  • There's some sort of mental block that exists when people try to sell themselves...especially when it involves helping other people. Unfortunately, it's just not possible to do that without burning out or getting jaded.

    Obviously I am slightly jaded here, but it's that sort of thought that keeps you balanced.

    Thanks for the comment :)
  • This moves into the realm of psychology -- which I love equally as much as design. I do think there is a cultural belief that getting paid for doing good somehow taints the giver. In other words, there is something wrong with us if we want to get paid to do good. But what my business coach always reminds me that if I had more money, I would do more good.

    I agree with you that a balance must be struck. But then that goes into the self esteem of the person offering services. Do they feel worthwhile enough to charge? I have a very close friend who is an amazing writer. She has 30+ years doing PR/marketing writing for the television industry. She is tops in her business, yet gives so much away for free. And before I worked with a business coach, I was in the exact same space, and while I've improved tremendously, I am still working to find that balance you speak of.

    This is a very interesting discussion. Thank you for starting it!
  • Allyn1
    Couple things:
    First off Nathan, you are quite naive buddy. I assume you are a young guy and have not experienced much outside of the military. Truth is, many many rich corp CEO types were given what they have because of their last name, the school they went too, or as favors to other CEO and boardroom types. There is major corporate incest going on everyday in boardrooms. Why do you think ALL the big banks had problems at the same time? Because all the "rich" people that ran those banks were in bed together.
    But anyway, me, I don't hate those people, I just don't want to be like them either. They buy and sell people, not help or build them up.
    On another note, to me, "rich" means I have time to be with my family. Money doesn't make you rich... being a good human or good character is being rich, and using that good character to build a family and a community in the real world is "rich."
    Next, as far as "free" goes... people are not addicted to "free" my brother... people in this MMO niche that you are trying to break into.. they are "information addicted."
    If you got yourself into some real world niches and learned to market there, you'd find that people will buy shiz all day long.
    Since the gloves are off here, you need to pull your head our of your MMO and IM ass and get some experience with real humans on the net.
    Maybe then you won't be so jaded.

    Finally, as far as being "inside" the MMO niche and paying for content... trust me man, there are very few 'bloggers' or internet marketers that have anything worth paying for. It is all out there already. Re-hashed fluff is re-hashed fluff no matter what the pricetag.


    I hope you take this comment in the spirit of good, honest conversation.
    AL
  • Sorry, but right off the bat you're wrong. I've spent a little bit of time in a lot of places. My grandfather worked his way up the chain to becoming an executive of a few Fortune 500 companies before he retired.

    Yes, some CEO's have it made these days, but there are thousands of people doing it on their own. I could name a dozen in and around our niche right off the bat...many of which provide a service that isn't "making money blogging."

    Rich can mean what you want it too. I didn't address the point of family in this post because it is irrelevant. This post is about clawing your way out of a hole and taking control of your own life instead of making excuses why you can't.

    I told you before, and this is the last time I'll defend myself on this topic...but I'm involved in many niches. I also don't sell bullshit like many people do, so if that's what you're talking about, then I'll pass any day of the week.

    However, when it comes to selling real products that are valuable, yeah...I'm there.

    You are an asshole by nature...it's your schtik...so I'll let it slide this time, but that's the last time.

    If you want "honest conversation," then you should know better than to try and provoke arguments with $3 curse words.
  • Allyn1
    LOL, I just re-read my comment and didn't think it came off that way. You miss-judged.
    I also don't know where you "told me anything" before. (I don't recall leaving comments here previously, I could be wrong)
    Thanks for letting me slide I think (if you didn't 'let me slide, what would you do?... come and go Army on me or something?').
    Looks like you just don't like people who aren't sucking up to you and your group.. that is your schtick and I wish you luck with it.
    AL
  • Allyn,

    I told you this in the comments on the post titled "David Risley Disappoints."

    I don't mind debate at all, just ask Tobias. What I do mind is someone telling me to pull my head out of my ass.

    I'm not threatening you. I'm simply saying that if you want to debate here, then you'll have to be respectful.
  • Allyn1
    ok, I get it,... I guess my definition of "the gloves are off" is different than yours. I come from a place different than you in general anyway. Telling someone to pull their head out is just men talking blunt in my world... it's normal. Ever see "Grand Torino?"
    I'll remember to play nice should I find a need to take issue with you or your circle of friends in the future. I understand the 'baby jesus' image you guys are chasing and I respect that.
  • I'm sure you do.
  • Nathan, I can't agree with you more. I think many people expect things on the internet to be free. However, these same people don't give things away for free in their own businesses. I am new to blogging, but plan on using it as a platform for an online business. I searched the internet and found some good resources for free (some from your site :-)) but in the end I joined the Blog Masters Club and am paying for what I hope is a high-level course that will set me up for success. Free things are nice, but at some point you have to pay for things that are valuable.

    One of these days, I hope to generate the same amount of buzz as you. Thanks
  • It's only a matter of time Brandi, especially if you're following David's lead.
  • laurajanethompson
    This is one of the most refreshing articles I've read in a long time. First, thank you for your service. Second, thank you for saying what so many people are afraid to say.

    I, too, was poor for a long time, but I never had any delusions about why I was poor. I realized that in order to succeed, I simply needed to work harder. And I did. And I became increasingly less poor.

    I can't stand the sense of entitlement that pervades so much of our culture and media, not only on an individual level but on a corporate level as well. I believe that it's a good idea to help people where you can, but I also believe that you can't (and shouldn't) count on something for nothing.
  • Thanks for bringing some experience to the discussion. Yet another example of someone that took life by the horns and rode it to redemption.
  • laramulady
    Hey Nathan - first time reader here. Follow you on Twitter, and decided to take a look at this post due to one of your tweets. Nothing really new from the rest of the comments to say, but wanted to write anyway.

    Really good post, and as I wrote you on Twitter, Malcolm Gladwell's book, The Outliers, talks a bit about this rich/poor divide; well, more in a success kind of way, but all in a similar vien. I agree with you entirely, and also with Remarkablogger's comment of, "...passive-aggressive losers who don't truly want to succeed." From what I've seen, and read (not just in The Outliers), some people simply become so damn pissed off with their lot that any possible chance that comes their way to make things better for them, in any way, just gets laughed at and ignored. Then they continue to mope around, blaming everyone but themselves for their situation. Of course, there are those who are in exceptional difficulties, who are stuck in a vicious circle, but for the most it's for lack of effort. Getting somewhere in life means hard work, and if you don't like hard work, then don't complain when you're not making as much as your neighbour, or if you're simply not as happy as the next guy.

    As for the free content part, I think that's a really hard question today. I'm from England, living in Denmark, and as Graham Hunt said, blogging isn't really something anyone makes money from over here, although I understand people do, and why people do. However, I would only pay for something if it really was worth it, and from what I've seen - which granted, isn't much - many of the blogs which charge a fee are just ridiculous piles of crap which I can read anywhere for free. I totally and utterly agree with you when you say how people regurgitate what they read elsewhere and think it's something genius and entirely new. I'm sick and bloody tired of that - and even worse - people commenting on it like it's something they've never heard of before, and I'd be willing to pay, after reading a 'teaser' for a blog post that I could be sure was new, relevant, and interesting. Although of course, I'd first have to make an effort to make the money with which to pay :)
    But I do also think that free content is partly what has made society today. Access to information has transformed society to an incredible extent. Whether I'm sitting in a council library in Brixton or sitting in the library at Oxford Uni, I could access the same information. This is a beautiful thing, and I worry that it might disappear and revert back to 'real life' where the me in Brixton will be denied access because of my social status. As it is now, it only backs up the previous point of; everyone has the same chance. I for one hope it stays that way :)

    Phew. Anyway - thanks for the post - I'll be sure to visit again :)
  • Wow, thanks for such an awesome comment :)

    I'm working on Outliers soon and then I'll be reading the rest of his stuff. I can't believe I haven't ready any of them yet...especially when they're sitting right here on my desk.

    Before this post, I didn't realize that Europeans were a bit more hesitant in these areas than Americans are. Something to think about for sure.
  • This is an extreme post which is great for stimulating conversation. However, I think that extreme ideas fail to recognize the other side of the coin.

    I want to bring balance.

    Fact: The playing field in life is not equal for everyone.
    People go around saying everyone has the same opportunities and up to a point they do, but not everyone has the same supportive families to point them in the right direction and to educate them. I'm sorry, but a middle class kid brought up with parents who read to him every night and makes sure he is eating right, doing his homework and going to school has a huge advantage of some kid whose solo mum is a crack addict prostitute and there are lots of them.

    The field is uneven from a very young age for most people. Also, some parents give their kids something to leverage like Gary Vaynerchuk who could leverage his families wine business.

    Fact: The playing field in life is not equal for everyone.
    On the other side of the coin I believe it's unreasonable for people to expect life to be fair. It's not. While I support a flat tax rate for everyone where the government takes in more from the rich, I think it's unreasonable to expect the rich people's money can and should all be given to the poor.

    Also, not every poor kid has to stay that way. With the Internet we finally have a great equalizer where the poor with hard work can surpass the middle class kids. The one thing they have to do is to put all the crap behind them that disadvantaged them and work harder to catch up.

    So, I think it's wrong to say that everyone has the same opportunities. They don't. However I also think that everyone through hard work, desire and self-education can catch up and build wealth.
  • Gordie, I'll admit that I'm jaded for reasons that I can't explain here. Not my right to share someone else's secrets. However, I'm not really talking about the kid that never had a chance (I know 2 of them)...I'm really talking about those that do and spend the rest of their lives holding on to pain instead of letting go and looking for something better.

    I'm also looking to find people to work with that are willing to change because quite honestly, I don't have much time for anything else.
  • Hey Nathan,
    Is this a new project coming up that you want people to work with on or you're just talking in general?
  • Mostly in general, but I'm working on a few ideas. Nothing concrete yet, but I'll share them when they get there.
  • Werner
    You can always recognize an great blog post - when it comes from the heart with passion.

    Not only is the blog post blowing my mind, but so are the comments. It's like some of you are reading my very thoughts verbatim. I agree with Nathan wholeheartedly.
  • Thanks...I have to say that this discussion has been better than I expected in many ways.
  • Extremely interesting discussion and one that I see coming up more and more, particularly with the Blog Club launch and Third Tribe. Someone left a comment on my blog and mentioned that new bloggers are also new to business and you need a business plan to succeed. Because WordPress/Blogger are free and other Google products are "free" then it's quick, cheap and easy to get started. If everyone who started online needed to present a business plan to get funding there would be more realistic expectations. And I'm including myself in there.

    Part of that includes investment and the line blurs when there is so much out there that there is a big difference between wanting something for free and thinking it's not worth paying for. Half the time I can't decide which is which.
  • Ok consumed and thought about. I am not going to say anything profound here but from a perspective which is more European I think that maybe you are missing one thing. Blogging isn't recognised as a job and therefore "how dare you make money out of it" is the mindset.
    If you try to explain to someone in Spain that you make money online, never mind by writing a blog they look at you as if you are from another planet. In that sense you are already preaching to more converted people. Here in Europe more people expect free content than in the States. As that barrier breaks down it is more possible to make money online but remember that there are different perspectives here.
    I bet a higher percentage of your complaints come from non US readers.
  • remarkablogger
    You all may have noticed that are far fewer rich people than poor people.

    There's a reason for that: doing what is required to have a rich life (I don't mean just money) is far, far harder than what most people are willing to go through.

    It's not about having chances. How many stories have we all read about people who had far worse chances in life than any of us, and yet they made it. These people are all over the world, all races. Granted, there are some trouble spots on the planet where such a thing is almost impossible, but even then I would never say totally impossible.

    So it becomes a question of what do you really want, and what are you REALLY willing to do in order to achieve it?

    If all you want is lots of money, I think that's sad, and it's going to warp your life. But if you want a loving, fulfilling, passionate life, chances are good that all the money you need will come your way as a side-effect.

    Money is simply a medium of exchange. You get my help for X number of dollars. I buy your thing for X number of dollars. If we're passionate about what we do, well-positioned in the marketplace, and offer something of value, then a fair exchange is almost guaranteed to take place.

    You know what really cracks me up? When I send an email to my list recommending a training program that could transform people's lives for the better, and do you know what happens? I get tons of unsubscribes by passive-aggressive losers who don't truly want to succeed. I'm perfectly fine with that. I don't want those people on my list. It's THIER loss. They turned away help because they didn't want to fairly pay for it. They're messed up in the head if they think that.

    This is why I target business owners, not people who are "just" bloggers. Bloggers are cheap-asses. They don't want to pay for shit. Business owners have a marketing budget. They have an investment mentality, not a cost mentality.

    Free content on a blog is only useful so far as it leads to sales when you're running a business.
  • menwithpens
    You all may have noticed that are far fewer rich people than poor people.

    There's a reason for that: doing what is required to have a rich life (I don't mean just money) is far, far harder than what most people are willing to go through.


    *applause*

    That, my friend, is it. Right there.
  • James, great to see you :)

    Michael seems to be getting good with lines like that. Also saw him take the gloves off over on Johnny's blog...liked that too.
  • Here here Michael, which is why I like the model of selling to businesses rather than bloggers. You're right...a lot of bloggers are cheap.

    This is precisely the reason why most of my upcoming ventures have little to do with blogging or making money online. Those that do are aimed at business customers, and not bloggers.
  • OK, I'm back! And I'm pleased Kevin commented, as I know where he's coming from too.

    At the end of the day, those of us who are blogging for an income realize that only a small proportion are right for our E Book / course / whatever *right now.*

    And that's fine. We all realize it. Only a small percentage of my readers bought Beyond Blogging, a small percentage of David's bought Blog Master's Club, and a small percentage bought Third Tribe from Darren's post. The people for whom those products were right knew it straight away, which is why they bought!

    The thing that pisses me off is that some of the people who choose not to to buy get so vocal in complaining that some of us want to sell.

    If they don't want it, that's cool. Move on. But please stop bitching about the fact that some of us are working hard to create products that help others, and those people are happy to pay for what we provide.

    If they want only to consume the wealth of free content that David, Darren and Nathan provide, that's fine! Let them fill their boots. Just stop complaining when they choose to provide a little more and earn a crust by doing so.
  • drroberthenrysschwenk
    Thanks for a great post and very good ideas. I too think people are expecting way too much to be handed to them. Can't wait for your Facebook RockStar materials for which I will gladly pay.
  • You bet, I cant' wait to see what people get from Facebook Rockstar. Should be awesome.
  • I'm on it.

    I've got a few password protected posts myself, for subscribers only.

    Nathan, if I don't have my list of small products up for sale by next Friday, Feb 12, I will send you a $100 check.

    This will include an early edition of an ebook I'm working on (fills a hole in the market), and 6 WordPress Whitepapers. And 3 levels of consulting.

    No excuses.
  • Happy to help with this Dave. Send me a check too of you don't do it. Twice the motivation. :)
  • You're on for the one after.

    I've done this with Deacon before, worked well. Posted the ripped up check a few weeks ago.
  • It's on Dave...I'll hold you to that, for your sake :)
  • DDOS is still going on. It's cost me a lot of traffic and today's post. Maybe tomorrow's as well.

    All products are up:
    * http://website-in-a-weekend.net/creating-conten...
    * Whitepapers in sidebar: http://website-in-a-weekend.net/
    * Consulting: http://website-in-a-weekend.net/consulting/


    Much more to be done.

    I'm confident I can go this route because I have the credentials. Frankly, I could leverage my credentials a lot more than have, but I don't do business that way.
  • Bloody, bloody - fiery stuff from the heart! I can understand your frustration to a certain extent but then I think we both know I am approaching this from a slightly different perspective. After all I have fewer years ahead of me than I have behind me and while I'd like to see my blog succeed as a resource and a service if it doesn't make me a millionaire I am not going to need months of trauma counselling.

    I agree with your concern about people being wrongly addicted to free and I don't agree with bloggers giving away knowledge (unless they want to) because if blogging is a business then you need to make money from it.

    But then I seem to see that within months everywhere you turn on the blogosphere there are blogclub this and blogclub that. I earn a decent salary and even I could not afford to subscribe to everything that is being thrown at me and I slightly - well maybe more than slightly - resent the underlying tone that unless I subscribe to this top tutorial or that blog class I am going to be a miserable failure. It's gathering at a pace and manic momentum that brought along the "joys" of pyramid selling many years ago.

    I'll be interested to see where this almost amphetamine powered course is taking you but I hope you don't leave behind everyone who travels at a different pace.
  • Hey Kevin,

    Since you mentioned "blogclub", I was guessing you might have been referring to the launch I just finished? ;-) Anyway, I don't think Nathan or I have any underlying tone like you said. I think what it comes down to, for me, at the people who aren't keeping it real.

    I had some people (not many, but a few) actually take the time to bitch me out for selling something. It those kind of people who I just don't have time for.

    But, on the other hand, I fully realize not everybody can afford a course like mine. And I'm cool with that. Nor am I saying (and I don't think Nathan is either) that you need to pay for a membership site to find success. There are plenty of bloggers who succeeded without my course, and there will be more.

    I think the whole thing is a commentary on the attitudes one sometimes comes across in the whole "make money" niche.
  • David, my point were just words picked from the ether to illustrate a point, not an attack on you or your new launch and I apologise if it came across that way. As I said earlier I have no problem with people bloggers selling a product to help others, everyone has to make a living, but it struck me that there seemed to be a sudden artillery burst of these types of offerings.

    There is one "A lister" who I won't name as I am not in the game of specific and personal attacks, whose offerings read like something a pyramid scheme from the 70s and I think a lot of talented bloggers/internet marketeers are in danger of falling into the same trap. Maybe I am alienated from that sort of approach because I am a "anally retentive, withdrawn,wilting wallflower Brit" :-)

    On of my "virtual colleagues" is on your course and I will be watching her journey with interest.
  • Kevin, there is an essential "pyramid" aspect to this blogging thing.

    But it's not really different than any other endeavor.

    The people with the chops call the shots, those without, pay.

    That's the way of the world.

    Pull as many people as you can along with you, and when you start running out of time to help them for free, raise your prices.
  • Kevin, I'm going to comment more on this later, but I did want to say something quickly...which is that I'm not encouraging people to spend like crazy and join a bunch of memberships.

    I'm simply asking people to

    1. Don't talk about something unless you know what you're talking about.
    2. Don't make excuses for where you are and instead, find a way to get where you need to be.

    You're on a path that works for you, and I don't fault you for that. Quite honestly, I'm tired of the make money blogging niche, and really, the only reason I spend time and money there is because of the networking angle.

    More than anything, I'm screaming out loud for someone to bring something new to the table...to take risks...and to stand for something, regardless of whether it's on my side or somewhere else.

    Does that make sense?
  • I am with Mike on this one. Comment coming later
  • Great post, dude. And I agree completely on the mindset. Interestingly, though, I find that if I just be what I am naturally, people who click with me will find me. Call it the "law of attraction" or whatever you want, you get what you put out there.

    So, in that vein, I think you're making a good move. In this business, not everything can be free. It is just a fact. And if somebody complains about that fact, tell them (politely) that they're just going to have to live with it. :) Because that's life.

    People who are willing to give are going to naturally receive more. Those who expect free hand-outs ALL the time will likely always be poor, sitting on the outside trying to look in.

    And that, sir, is just the way the world works. :-)
  • > People who are willing to give are going to naturally receive more. Those
    > who expect free hand-outs ALL the time will likely always be poor, sitting
    > on the outside trying to look in.

    Whoa. That's some 100-proof truth right there. And telling people who are stuck there exactly that is a pretty big gift. I'm going to have to ponder that.
  • You're right David, which is one of the reasons I've started being less "make everyone happy" and more just being myself.

    And I'll say this, if information wants to be free, then I'm going to find a new way to pay my bills. There's only so much time in the day...and after your recent launch, I have a feeling you now what that feels like.
  • I like your post. And it's too good to rattle off a quick comment. Let me walk around the garden for 20 minutes. I'll be back.
  • Nathan, thanks for laying it down. I suspect we likely don't agree on a number of things - I was also fairly active on Jonathan's discussion, and not necessarily coming from the same general direction. However, I have no plans of walking away just because we might not share every single opinion or philosophy. I quite like people that challenge my assumptions in interesting ways, and I am drawn to other strong personalities. I also have a strong suspicion that our core values are largely aligned - at lease the ones which really matter to me, principally spiritual and not political ones.

    Even though I'm currently in quite a challenging position, I don't make a lot of excuses for myself, given that I've had many amazing opportunities in my life. I'm working on it. However, I do believe there are people that honestly do not have the same chances as I have had, through no fault of their own - and they need help, not judgement. They don't get a lot of it under the current system. How best to fix that is certainly open to debate, I personally have not yet seen anyone with a perfect set of answers.

    I do agree that there need to be some real alternatives to the everything-should-be-free model, which is obviously dysfunctional.
  • Tobias, I can get down with that. You're honest, to both yourself and me, and that's awesome.

    I don't think there are any perfect answers either, and you're right...there are exceptions. My problem is with a lot of people, some of which are in my own family, that always want to blame someone else.

    I know I sound judgmental at times, and I'm not trying to be...I'm just very passionate about this.
  • I get the passion and that's one reason I'm sticking around. I also think you're absolutely right that a great many people, likely the vast majority in fact, generally blame other people, or society, or the government, or their parents or the education system or ANYONE other than themselves for the situations they find themselves in. And in fact that very thing is often the biggest factor in keeping them from manifesting changes that they may profess to want. People are often addicted to their troubles and the blame and victim cycles they are locked in. However, again, the right response is to offer empowering alternatives rather than judgement, and I think that's precisely where we and most of the people in this community, regardless of political affiliation, likely agree and probably have the most to offer. So let's do that...
  • In theory, I agree, but here's my problem.

    In my life, there are a handful of people that I've been trying to teach how to better their situation, but it's almost like they don't want to, because then they'd have to let go of the anger and blame. Does that make sense?

    I honestly can't explain it.
  • Yes. It makes sense, and that's actually a pretty clear way of explaining it. It is virtually impossible, actually, to teach anyone or help them change, even obviously destructive behavioural patterns, until they have decided and made the commitment to change. In fact, that's far and away the hardest part - once a genuine commitment has been made, bringing about the change is often fairly simple. But the trouble is that actually wanting to change, which might seem simple from the outside, often engages incredibly complex systems of emotional blocks and barriers, erected in childhood and perfected over a lifetime. Again, playing the victim is often a deep-set addiction. Blaming others protects us from taking responsibility for ourselves, which is for many people a very, very deep fear. They would sooner watch their lives collapse than accept that they are responsible for them. It's rather sad.
  • You ever notice that people at sports games go absolutely nuts when the guy with the t-shirt cannon comes out? They know the shirt is a piece of crap that they'd never wear, yet they still want it. It's because it's free AND they don't want to see someone else get the benefits (or story) when it's within their own reach.

    I think that's the key differential with free content. When people pay for something, they've made the mental commitment of value that only THEY can justify. Compare it to something they receive for free that available to all... they're addicted to wanting it for the sole reason that others are consuming & benefiting from it - and they don't have to justify its value whatsoever.

    In the comedy club industry, it's very common that the venue give away free tickets (on the radio usually) for their slower nights - hopefully to make some money off of drinks/food. It's also quite common that the "freebie" people end up complaining and being disruptive the most. It's because they haven't justified a value to themselves.

    In fact, they may have been willing to pay for tickets to the show... but once they heard the radio spot and saw a ton of people calling up to gain a benefit - it didn't matter, they just *had* to get in on the action or miss out on something that was easily in their reach with little effort. Now they attend the show with a chip on their shoulder like they're part of an exclusive "in" thing and conduct themselves like that.

    Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?
  • Agree with Nathan and Jordan here.

    When someone has to work for or pay for content, they value it much more. Not only do they appreciate it, but they get more out of it because they're invested in it.

    "I paid for this, so I should get maximum use out of it."

    So it's not just beneficial for us content creators to sell income-wise, but it is for consumers as well.

    Hence, our job as content providers becomes to clearly express why someone should pay for our value.

    No tricks or hype, and no compromises on the free content, of course.

    Just pushing ourselves to make the most remarkable stuff possible and clearly sending the message of its benefits to potential customers. To the point where it's a no-brainer for them to buy. It's not about the price or the marketing, but them really wanting/needing the content.

    Like Jordan adding his comedian insight, I'll throw in the music insight.

    Do you pay for music?

    Wait, don't answer that - most NathanHangen.com readers do :)

    But MOST people don't. Why? Because the value isn't there. Pay for an mp3? It's just some 1's and 0's.

    So how do you effectively sell music? By offering real perceived value, whether through a desirable physical package or an experience (whether a show, video, event, membership area, or whatever else you can creatively come up with).

    Phew. I'm done :)

    Oleg
  • Oh yeah, and I agree with "no excuses" of course.

    It feels momentarily good to blame others, but it won't improve your situation. If you really want to make something a reality, re-focus that energy inwards. Improve yourself and get something done.

    Easier said than done, but it doesn't require anything fancy or special or being privileged. As you prove, Nathan, it just takes work and sticking with it.
  • Yes, it is always that way. Human nature.

    Even when raising kids, they will value their stuff more if they have to put some work into it. This is why spoiled kids usually end up being pains in the ass.
  • I totally get it man. You're right, and I appreciate that you brought some of your own experience into the conversation. I don't want to work with those kinds of people.

    My question to you is, do you agree or disagree?
  • Nathan, I agree with you completely. It's what I always say about externalizing vs. internalizing your issues. Instead of making excuses by focusing the blame on other people or things, look inwards at yourself and say "it doesn't matter what anyone else has or is doing - only I can control how successful I can be so let me see how I can improve myself"
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