It's Time I Level with You

30 Dec 2009

blogging truth

I’ve got a confession to make:

I’m human…I make mistakes, I have flaws…strengths and weaknesses (just don’t tell my wife).

I get excited, frustrated, defensive, self-conscious, and all that other good stuff that people aren’t supposed to admit. It’s part of life, and I take it for what it’s worth.

The reason I say this, is because as you probably know, Beyond Blogging launched just days ago (seems like an eternity already) and Mike and I have seen our names plastered all over the net, in both good and bad fashions.

Frankly, it’s more press than I’m used to, and considering I’ve written for some pretty large blogs, that’s saying a lot. However, when I write for Copyblogger or Problogger, I’m familiar with that audience, and they with me.

In this instance, I’m being shoved in front of thousands of new faces that don’t know me from Adam, and I think it scares both of us.

Great Discussion

What I love about this, is that thanks to Google Alerts and Twitter, I’ve been able to find almost every mention of my name, Mike’s name, and the book’s name. I click the link and head over to see what’s going on, and when I do, I usually find a great conversation going on.

Thanks to these conversations, I’ve learned a lot, and, I think, so have many others.

Perceived Value

For instance, on Chris Brogan’s blog, his defense of our price caused him to write a really interesting post about perceived value. In essence, people were complaining about the price of our book, and he was defending it for us. I didn’t ask him to, but he did (thanks Chris).

I can understand the complaints, and it’s something that Mike and I struggled with when we priced the book. Frankly, we weren’t sure if we were comfortable with that price, but here’s the deal…

Information Isn’t Free to Those that Offer It

Writing Beyond Blogging cost Mike and I 5-6 months of laborious writing, which we enjoyed, but which we did nonetheless. From there, we spent several hundred dollars on book design, more on web design, and more on everything from the shopping cart to a domain name. This book cost us both time and money, and because I don’t want to spend time away from my family any more than I have (In Afghanistan and working 2 jobs), we decided we wanted to make a profit.

Now, when you take a $47 book, split the commission with an affiliate at 50%, and then subtract merchant fees and expenses, you aren’t left with much. So, those of you that thought we were doing this to get rich are probably off the mark. Would I like to get rich? Hell yes. Did I expect this book to make me rich? No, but we’ll get to that…

The Value Debate

Now, I realize that I can’t price on our effort, because that’s not what you pay for. You pay for value. I think we provided value, and in fact we haven’t had a single negative comment about the book from a single buyer, but to some, even that isn’t enough.

They wanted a $9.99 version. Could we have created one? Probably, but I can tell you it wouldn’t have been as solid. Not because we don’t care, but because when creating something like this, you have to weigh opportunity costs.

Bloggers give for free, in heaps already, but we have to make a living, which is why, from time to time, we sell $47 E-Books.

Creating Your Own Products

I say this because when you create a product of your own, you should consider this debate before creating a price.

We felt our content and our marketing could support that price tag…and from the looks of our early sales numbers, we were right…but I’ve also sold $12 books, and $97 courses. Each had a value and a purpose, and were priced accordingly.

Have there been complainers? Yes, in fact there’s an interesting debate about the rise of the $100 E-Book over at The Ideas Blog, but that goes with the territory. You have to go with what you feel is right.

Marketing Style

The next topic I’d like to discuss, is our sales page. Some called it “MLM,” some called it “scammy,” and some called it “salesy.” I’d like to think it was exactly what it was supposed to be, which is a page designed to send a message to a specific target audience, and prove that the book was worth buying for them.

As I said on another blog…I don’t like writing long sales copy. I didn’t want to for this project, but it’s what I know, and it’s what I know that works. Some people don’t need that much to make a decision, and I get that, but there are a lot of people that do. There are a lot of people that still print out sales pages before they buy.

Me? I scroll to the bottom and check the price, and based on what I believe the content to be, and what I know about the author, I either buy or pass. What’s your style?

Could we have gone with a quick blurb, like they did at How to Be Rich and Happy, and be done with it? Sure.

Could we have thrown the book on Amazon and let the reviews do the talking? Of course.

But why not say what needs to be said and let the reviews do the talking? They’re still out there, on Twitter and on blogs. You can find them at search.twitter.com or via Google.

We did what we did because it’s how marketers market, especially if they are marketing to people that don’t know them. I’d like to think that we could have sold a thousand copies based on our reputation alone, but that’s just not the reality.

But, I’m a believer in the 3rd Tribe marketing mentality. My content speaks for itself if you want to read it. If you like it, cool…check out the book. If you don’t, no problem…read Crush It or Trust Agents (read them anyway).

I’d like to believe that there’s a middle ground, and as a marketer, you’ll have to do your best to find it.

Honestly, I’m not sure if a few lines of text would have given you enough information with which to make up your mind…at least for $47.

What’s your take?

Getting Rich

I said I’d get back to the topic of getting rich, and here’s what I have to say about that.

You can make a living as a blogger…you might make 30k/year, or you might make 200k. If you’re lucky, you’ll come up with a theme like Thesis and sell 3 million in a year.

But, it takes a lot of work, and although it can be done, I’d like you to think bigger. Use your blog as a tool to build an empire, so that you can move beyond blogging as a way of life.

I don’t mean give up blogging, I mean that you should take the pressure off a bit by building other portals and projects. Beyond Blogging is just one of mine. I have the Rockstar series, a consulting gig, and a few other secret projects. But they aren’t all based around blogging.

Blogging is just a start…it’s where you can begin to build your influence.

Think big.

Summing it Up

I know I’ve been a bit long winded today, but I wanted to speak to you from the heart. I wanted to be honest and upfront, so that you can not only learn from what I’ve done, but understand it.

What did you think? Did you pay attention to the launch? Did it speak to you? Was it too spammy, too casual, or just right? If you read the book, what did you think? Hell, have a question? Ask away, I’m here for good.

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Jonny | thelifething.com

A great point by Rich below. If a company as successful as Apple can't get price right all the time then I think we can be forgiven every so often. I haven' read your book but if it is worth $47 dollars than it is worth that price. Simple.

You have talent, you spent along time on it and you have experience in the field. I doubt getting all that into a concise package would be anything but worth it.
Kimberly

Nathan,
I bought your e-book a few days ago. I was on the fence initially, but was ready to make my January investment into blogging, and so I thought, what's $47? Truth be told, what made me pull the trigger was the 25% off early-bird (or whatever it was) discount. I've read ALOT of free resources on blogging, from Yaro Starak and Gideon Shalwick, to David Risley, John Chow and others, and am on a bunch of those guys (and more) e-mail lists, and so I pay attention to alot of blogging "stuff."
I've been blogging for about 6 months now, and I have paid for one blogging resource prior to yours -- Yaro and Gideon's "Become a Blogger" course, which was $47 per month for 6 months, and very, very well worth it. Now, for me, since I am now used to paying that $47 per month for a blogging resource, and December was my last payment on that, I was ready to spend $47 in January on some other blogging resource. I chose yours. I've read only 26 pages so far, but I am happy with my purchase, and am sure will be even happier once I've completed the entire book. No matter how much work you put into something, or how great it is, there will always, always be complainers. Always. Even if you priced it at $9.99, you'd still have complainers, so don't let those people get you down. Now, of course, there is something to be said for good, constructive criticism, and I'm not dissing that kind of feedback; it's useful and necessary. But those folks who are whining about the price just because of the price? I'm with Rich Lazarra, don't second guess yourself or lose sleep over it!
Dan Butcher

Nathan, I'm glad I clicked over here from Beyond Blogging's sales page to find your take on the marketing of the book. I'm one of those who was put off a little by the price and even more so by the sales page. Truth is, if I hadn't come across the book through Chris Brogan's blog, I wouldn't have taken the time to read through the sales page to find the price once I saw that it was one of those long, keep scrolling down to find the price pages.

I'm with Jordan on the feel of the sales page--there's a WP plugin creator that requires a signup to use his plugins, and he markets various materials, and all his marketing materials take the same format: single, very long page, etc. It’s a huge turn-off to me.

I guess I'm wondering why something like Beyond Blogging can't be marketed like new print books. It's pretty common to see a web site for a new release that offers an overview on the home page, then links to pages with reviews, a sample chapter, etc. Those sites say "quality" to me in a way that your page does not (not to say your book isn't quality--just giving you my impression of the sales page).

In thinking some more about this, I realized what the difference is between the site for a print book and the typical marketing sales page. A book site as I described above typically lets the content speak for itself--there are very few promises about what the book will do for the reader, and there's no hard sell. I think what turns me (and others) off with the marketing pitch are promises and hype. I'm suspicious of anything or anyone that delays giving me the price; I once had a good friend pitch some financial services to me, and he refused to tell me the cost until he finished the pitch--I sat through it only because I valued his friendship; if it had been anyone else, I would have ended it right there with a "if you can't tell me the price up front, then this is over." At least with the web page, as you said yourself, we can scroll to the bottom and get the price.

I will buy the book because it looks really useful, and the 30-day guarantee makes it more appealing. And again, I appreciate your honesty in your post here--it's insightful for me to read your thoughts and to think as well about how I respond to various types of marketing.
Nathan Hangen

Dan,

Thanks for stopping by and for commenting.

We used long copy because it's what I've been taught, it's what I know that works. I haven't experimented enough with what you're recommending, which is why we didn't go that route in this case.

However, we're looking into a new format...in fact we're looking into a lead in that allows people to pick a short or a long version.

Let me ask you, as someone that feels this way about the sales page, had you not purchased (or planned to purchase because of it), would you be willing to give it another shot if we made changes?

The reason I ask this is because there are some people, I suspect, that might simply find another reason not to buy, or might look down on us for changing. What does it take to earn a 2nd chance? It's an interesting debate.

Another reason we went that way is because most of our audience doesn't know us, and even though CB recommended us, many still don't trust us. I'm OK with that...I realize I have to earn trust...but if you don't trust me and you see a simple page for a $47 book, are you going to pull the trigger? What if there weren't any reviews yet?

There are http://beyond-blogging.net/reviews

These are all the things we struggled with, and are still testing. Just when you think you have everything figured out...you realize you don't at all :)

I'll start by moving the price up, but would love to hear back.

Note: It worked well, and our conversion rate was excellent. I don't say this because we think we made a mistake, because we did what needed to be done, but as an entrepreneur, I'm always looking for ways to raise my game.
Dan Butcher

Nathan, one thing that occurs to me is that you are coming at this--and marketing this--from the perspective of an Internet marketer, while I'm approaching this from the perspective of someone who is much more comfortable and familiar with print books. I mention that because I still hesitate to buy e-books, in part because I *really* value the physical object of a book and being able to underline passages and write notes in the margins.

I teach college literature in my day job, so I'm not opposed to paying a premium for what I perceive as valuable--as someone mentioned on Brogan's blog, textbooks tend not be cheap.

All that to say, I may be comparing apples and oranges here, and if your marketing strategy is successful for your dominant audience, then obviously it works. As a teacher of writing, I pound my students about audience and the need to shape their work to the expectations of their readers--and that's what you've done with your marketing piece.

Having said that, I am also part of your target audience--though whether I'm in that dominant part or not remains to be seen. I'm a blogger who wants to grow his blog and "build an empire" of teaching, books, and other materials in which my blog plays a part.

To your questions: I understand what you are saying about whether changing the format of your materials would win more sales. I guess that's something you'll have to experiment with. I will say that had your sales material had a different format--i.e., one I was more familiar/comfortable with--I would have spent more time on the site without the draw of Brogan's endorsement.

I love the image at the top of the sales page--it starts off really slick and in a way that I could relate to--much like some of those book sites I mentioned. It's when I scrolled down and saw the blocks of text interrupted every so often by "add to cart" buttons (or whatever they said) that I thought, "Beware!" I wanted to see an image of the product (even if it is virtual), an overview, and the price prominently displayed, with links to more details, reviews, and the sample. The sample, btw, is very attractive and goes a long way toward making your sale--I would move that sample link up much higher. When I went back the second time to get the sample, it took me a while to find the link.

The other thing I would look for is more easily accessible info about you and your co-author. Yes, it's the bloggers you interviewed that are the (initial) draw, but I think most readers want to know about the people/personalities behind the project. I can't get to info about you until I go the very bottom of the sales pitch. And as I said in my previous comment, I'm glad I followed the link, because visiting your site and getting a sense of Nathan Hangen makes me much more comfortable with purchasing the product. Seeing your site and your face and reading your posts lets me know that this is a real deal and the guarantee will be honored (aside from any endorsement from CB or trust I have in him).

One of the things I've read a lot this year in many places is that social media needs to emphasize the "social"--the people/relational part--over the product, and I think that's very true. Your site here does a great job of doing that--I know that you have products to sell me, but I get the sense that you are interested in building a community as well. The sales page is missing the social/relational appeal--it's all about the product and the sale. Back to my friend with the sales pitch that I mentioned above: during that sales pitch, I wasn’t his friend; I was a prospect with money. I don't want to be a prospect. I want to be a person who is communicated with honestly and openly.
MichaelCantone

Hi Nathan,
Who am I to say or judge you?

I know a lot about IM and branding if Chris did not endorse it I would not have bought it and I have no regrets what so ever.

I had a real SUCKY 2009 doing all of the right things to build a foundation for my business but your book will be the last for 2009 W/out a doubt.

I did find it a bit tacky when something FREE was thrown in there with a $700.00 course attached.

There is already great value in what these guy and gals revealed and now they are part of me and I can deal with the TACKY.

You and Mike's book have inspired me to make 2010 THE year for me.

Thanks.
Nathan Hangen

Thanks Michael, that's what we were going for. I think 2010 is going to be awesome.

When you say free, are you referring to Chris G's bonus?
MichaelCantone

I do believe so, it was supposed to be info not a squeeze page so I thought.
Nathan Hangen

Hmm, I didn't know that. Chris offered us a bonus to give and we just assumed it was his $7 product being given for free. Thanks for letting me know.
Rich Lazzara

Nathan, pricing is one of the hardest things to get right on any product. It's something EVERY business has a hard time determining. Remember the first iPhone? 30 days later $100 price reduction. If a company like Apple doesnt get it right sometimes then you can be sure that pricing is a tough exercise.

Having said that I am not saying you didnt get it right. I think $3.13 for each of 15 interviews/information is a no brainer.

There are probably a dozen things you would do different...good... that means youre learning. NEVER second guess yourself or loose sleep over it. Analyze, improve and learn.
Nathan Hangen

Good point Rich, and even better perspective. More than anything, this launch has helped me cut my teeth on a process a thought I already had down...and it's been a sort of "coming out" for both Mike and I.
Marko Saric

I think you guys had a great launch. I am sure majority of the blogger population has heard about your book on that day as it was covered everywhere. That's great job and you are bound to hear a bad thing or two when you put something in front of so many people.

I like the "Blogging is just a start…it’s where you can begin to build your influence.". This is the same motto most of the profiled bloggers had and this is the way it works...
Nathan Hangen

Thanks Marko, it went a lot better than we had anticipated, in regards to getting help with reviews. The fact that people were asking their favorite bloggers for a review, tells me there was buzz, and that's awesome.
FlashyKiwi

Okay, $47.00 for 15 case studies and interviews with the the creme de la creme of blogging and Internet marketing on how they got to the top is just freakin' awesome value. These dicks who are critcizing the price don't realize what true value is.
Robert Bravery

Nathan,

That certainly is interesting. As I am not a salesmen nor a marketer I can not offer any experience or knowledge on the matter. Just my personal experience and feelings.

I personally do not like those long winded, in your face, same look alike sales pages. But then again I might be wrong. When ever I see those types of pages, I leave most of the time. I hate what I call Got-A-Buy-It-TV. You know, shopping channels that sell you stuff you do not need.

Would be interesting to see stats on these things to see how they perform. THey must perfom well because so many are doing it that way I guess.

Would be interesting to see stats as to how many sales you made directly from your sales pitch page and those from Affiliate links and those from word or mouth.

Keep us informed. We could all learn something valuable here.

By the way, well done, I hope your sales go on for a long time.
Rick - vinoun.com

With so many books that are promising that one could (easily) get rich blogging, and when many of those books do not actually deliver their promises, there's always the possibility that good book like yours fall victims to bad write-up.

I read some good reviews about the book and personally I think this is one of the book that I need in order to kick start my blogging. I just started my blog a few days ago before Christmas and been looking around for books that would help me. I already have two books from problogger and looking forward to have yours after I finish with Darren's 31 days.

Based on the reviews I've read so far at notaproblog.com and davidrisley.com, I must say that this book might just be the one that I really, really need as a new guy in this internet money-making gig. If didn't go to those site, I might never know that Beyond Blogging existed.
Nathan Hangen

It's a good book, and we support it with a guarantee. We don't promise you'll get rich reading it, because really, there's so much you'll need to do in order to get rich blogging (I touch on that in the post) that a single book won't do it, but it might help you focus and get a head start.

We're certainly proud of both the content, and the support we received. thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Robert Bravery

You mean you never made money? It often surprises me what people think it takes to develop a product. Whether that be a website, e-book, or a desktop application. The finnished product often does not tell of the blood sweat and tears that go into such a product.

I think we have all gotten used to the MLM type of web page. I must admit that I am not too impressed by those. But because I know your, that was a different story. Perhaps a lesson for next time. I think that the sales pitch could have been elss sales and more turotial and educational.

Sometimes short small chapters from the book, a tiny glimpse, a trailer if you will, often does more for advertising than a pure sales pitch.
Think movie trailers.
Nathan Hangen

Every blogger I know that makes good money selling stuff uses a very similar page. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but look at the Launch Coach's stuff, look at Sonia's stuff, look at Naomi's stuff, etc. I think even Teaching Sells used a long sales page.

The problem with tutorial and educational is that it doesn't sell, at least in my experience.

Thanks for the comment Robert.
Henri J

I usually get sold by word of mouth nowadays. People seemed to be recommend beyond blogging so I just went and signed-up for the prelaunch and took advantage of the early-bird discount. I thought the book was pretty awesome.

I don't think $47 is too much. I mean, if I actually apply stuff in the book and other things I learn, I can make $1,000++, so I can't see why people are complaining. This is an investment that will pay off. If you just learn one thing, it is worth it.

I don't particularly enjoy salesletters however. Like Jordan says, standard salesletters have gotten a bit of a bad rep. I like the non-selling ones like Chris Guillebeau and How to Be Rich and Happy. I don't know how well either of those sell, but they seem to be all about word of mouth and trust, so you're already presold when you get there.

Cheers for a great job, Nathan! :)
Liane

Honestly, the price shocked me a bit. Not because I think you're over-pricing (I pretty much believe in the book even before Chris Brogran defended it), but because I know it will make the ebook a little harder to market.

I mean, people have already been through a lot of blogging product referrals. And the trend that's been growing in them made quite a turn with Beyond Blogging. For example, Darren's 31DBBB is priced under $20 and that's problogger's name at stake already. If you can recall Alvin Phang's Blogger Handbook and even Rob Benwell's Blogging to the Bank, it's still ranges from $20-30-something and there are a lot of bonus reports, videos, articles etc. that comes with the package.

Therefore, with Beyond Blogging launching to $47, the first reaction was to be skeptical. And if you consider it, the value of "interviews" seems to sound not as strong as saying it's a solid guide to make money with blogging (which at the end is what people are after).

Though I do believe in Beyond Blogging, in fact, I'm an affiliate of it (and of course, I'd love to have a review copy so I can defend it all the more. lol). The point of my comment is that I just want to share my insights on what I think are the weak factors of Beyond Blogging's marketability. and hopefully you can improve on that.

and oh, last but not the least, try to compare it with Caroline Middlebrook's Blogger's Bible. It's over $100... and really... I think that's a more controvertial ebook than this.
Nathan Hangen

Liane,

You'll notice that's why we focused both on the money side and the interviews in the sales letter. Both were true, but one seems to ring more with some than others.

I'm really surprised at the reaction on the price...I've paid much more for what I thought was junk (well at the time I thought it was going to rock), and yes I've paid less too.

However, this book also relies on the support of affiliates in order to be successful. Would you get excited at 300 commissions at $20 ($10 commission) instead of 200 at $47 ($23.50)?

What bothers me is that a lot of blog readers expect everything to be for free, at the benefit of the community. Some bloggers have trained their audiences to be cheap. Unless we knew we could have sold enough at $15-20 to make a profit, then we probably wouldn't have written the book, because of the significant investment involved.

Thanks for becoming an affiliate, and for stopping by and letting me know what you think.
jadecraven

Mate - this type of reaction will happen always. People bitch.

Heres a story I've been trying not to tell too much, but I'll drop it in here. I'm poor. As in, for the first half of the year I could barely feed myself and during the second half of the year I've been earnt couple of k doing the occasional project while dealing with other stuff.

Now I'm at the stage where I rarely buy anything for less than $100. I dropped $400 on Chris Garrets Authority blogger course. I've spent more than I want to think about on Naomi Dunfords stuff. And the thing is? I'm making tonnes back. Exceeding my initial investment.

I've spent less than $100 on Dave Navarros stuff and have made at least 1k back.

I just finished reading Michael Ports 'Book Yourself Solid' today. I'd recommend you read it especially the bit on velvet rope policies. My first e-course will be at least $100 but I'm going to make sure it has thousands of dollars in perceived value.

:-) Looking forward to working with you,
Jade
Nathan Hangen

Jade,

I know exactly how you feel. I spent a lot of time building my reputation as opposed to products, and I'm happy I did, but I made a promise to my wife that I wouldn't spend all day on the computer just for fun. Bloggers like yourself deserve to be able to pay the bills.

Dave is someone that sells high dollar stuff, but does well with it. I have his More Buyers Mastermind and I love it. It's a similar product, and it sells for like 297 now? I'd still pay that for it.

I'll check that book out, sounds interesting. I'm glad you're investing and seeing a return. I think that's when my business took a major turn for the better, and I hope it's the same with you. Now, let's get to work on that epic post :)
Sarge

What a great read. Love how you structured that post with short paragraphs.

The part about building an empire really spoke to me. I've been involved with blogs in some way or another for years but only this year did I start to really dedicate myself to a blog and start getting social and interacting with others. I've met so many wonderful people through my blog/twitter and being social now that I feel very safe about my future.

By that I mean I don't feel like I will ever have to forcefully go for a typical job interview if I get desperate. I feel like I'm connected and in arms reach in a way of everyone I need to be in contact with if I ever had a great idea for a big project I wanted to do. It all seems so achievable now.

I understand what you mean that 'blogging' can get you off to bigger and better things. Think big indeed. Connecting with others has been the by far the most amazing thing I've been able to do this year, I only wish I did it earlier.

To answer your questions I certainly did pay attention to your launch, it was everywhere but that's because I'm subscribed to a lot of blogs and email lists that promoted it. The people within those blogs I follow and that are subscribed were your target audience and feel you did a great job. The book is very professional and I feel the price of $47 is well justified for the content you get.

It's a great book for anyone looking to be successful in the blogging world and also a great book even for a hobby blogger that knows some of the people mentioned in the book and would love to know their history, personality and how they go to the stage they are at now.

Sarge | BeginnerBlogger.com
Nathan Hangen

Thanks Sarge, that's my favorite part too :)

I've had several dozen jobs since I was 15, the Army being the most recent. I can't work for a boss ever again, it's just not in my nature :)

We tried to reach out to a lot of people during the launch, and I appreciate your thoughts on the book. We spent a lot of time and money trying to get it right, and we're proud of it.
paul martin

Its Christmas Day 7ish, keep up the good work, and don't let people stomp on your Dream (Sinatra says this better)
Nathan Hangen

Thanks Paul, you're absolutely right. I'm sensitive at times...guess I'll have to get over that :)
Jordan Cooper

I would have to at least agree with the sentiment that the sales page comes across as very MLM and understand why it may turn off some people.

Nathan, although I know it wasn't your intention to appear like this... I think with the style becoming so predominant and visible across any niche on the web, the perception of "ugh, another scammy marketing pitch" is going to resonate in more people you attempt to sell.

Having read Beyond Blogging and being *ridiculously* surprised at how good of a product it is with immense tangible value, it may just be disappointment that it was presented (unintentionally) in this manner. It's like going to see a great movie that you feel it's trailer did a poor disservice to the actual quality of the film.
Nathan Hangen

I've never seen a MLM sales page, but I know what you mean. It might turn off some people, but I think if people really read it, they'll see we aren't lying...it's a good book.

How to Be Rich and Happy sold something like 1 million in Ebooks with that crappy sales page, but then again...how can you not sell that many with a ridiculous title like that? That's the kind of title that screams scam to me...even without the long sales page.

If the book were priced for less, we probably would have done less selling but obviously that $47 thing gives people fits...so we had to do a bit of that.

Did we make a mistake there? Hard to say...but I'll tell you I've had trouble sleeping thinking about that.